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Baggot: Low turnouts at UW women's hockey games don't make sense
By ANDY BAGGOT
608-252-6175
608-252-6175
12/4/2008
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PrintThis isn't the biggest case I've brought before the court of public opinion, but it's been bugging me for a while, so here goes:
Why doesn't the most dominant, most successful sports program at the University of Wisconsin draw more of an audience?
The women's hockey team has been to three straight NCAA title games, winning championships in 2005-06 and '06-07.
This season, UW is unbeaten (16-0-2) and unanimously ranked No. 1 in the nation. It is 6-0-2 against schools ranked in the top 10 and might well be better than the three previous editions because of its incredible depth at forward.
The Badgers have at least three players worth the price of admission because of their energy, talent and skill. Senior center Erika Lawler is an unstoppable dervish, junior right winger Meghan Duggan might be the best two-way player in the nation, and sophomore right winger Hilary Knight already has 20 goals and we're just over halfway through the regular season.
That trio, along with senior goaltender Jessie Vetter, will probably be skating for Team USA in the 2010 Winter Olympics in Vancouver. We'll know next month if UW coach Mark Johnson will get the nod to coach the American team.
Speaking of Vetter, she will go down as one of the five most dominant, most clutch student-athletes in school history, men or women.
A fifth-year senior from Cottage Grove, she's 8-1 in the NCAA tournament and 73-11-7 overall. Her 32 shutouts are a NCAA career record. Her 1.09 goals-against average and 94.4 save percentage would set UW records.
So, why doesn't this quality act have more of a following?
Heading into WCHA games against St. Cloud State at 2 p.m. Friday and Saturday at the Kohl Center, the Badgers have drawn an average of 1,440 fans per game. That includes league series against second-ranked Minnesota and defending NCAA champion Minnesota-Duluth.
That average is down from last season's 1,861 and slightly above the 1,306 that showed up in 2006-07. Those two totals led the nation.
I know what you're going to say: Some schools would kill to have consistent support like that. You're right, too.
But this isn't an ordinary program we're talking about, nor is it supposed to be a run-of-the-mill community for hockey.
Based on the number of callers and e-mailers — complaints run slightly ahead of compliments — you'd think the Badgers had a massive following. But that doesn't translate to the turnstiles.
Maybe the scheduling stinks, especially Friday afternoon games (kids are in school and parents are working) and those on Sunday afternoon (the Packers).
Maybe many of those who follow the UW men's team — which is averaging 13,638 fans per game this season — have a hard time making the translation to the no-checking aspect of the women's game.
Maybe the hockey-loving households in the state revolve more around youth games — kids playing and parents coaching — than Badgers games.
General admission tickets are $5, so it can't be the cost.
So why aren't more people showing up to watch this mini-dynasty at UW?
I wish I had more than just theories.
62 comment posts
Last Reply: 12/11/2008 5:36 PM
Baggot: Low turnouts at UW women's hockey games don't make sense
(12/11/2008 5:36 PM)
FREEBIRD says:
Schedule women's hockey games prior to all home UW men's baseball games. I won't consider any UW women's athletic events until UW baseball returns.
(12/10/2008 10:00 PM)
Title9 says:
Scheduling? The football team plays anywhere from 11am - 7pm on Saturdays and don't seem to have a problem.
Fact: not many people show up to watch the #1 women's hockey team in the country. In fact, very few. Fact: FAR, FAR fewer people show up for women's hockey and basketball games than the men's teams - and this season the women are doing far better. Hmmm.
Any conclusion other than a simple "people, whether they want to admit it or not simply don't care about women's athletics" doesn't face the facts. Frankly, it doesn't matter how much you LOOOOVE going to the game Ma'am, very few other people do. That is just the truth. We will never see a local sportswriter write a story about this, because, well, he can't...so instead post a question that has the most simple answer ever: THE REASON NOT MANY PEOPLE SHOW UP IS BECAUSE NOT MANY PEOPLE CARE.
Fact: not many people show up to watch the #1 women's hockey team in the country. In fact, very few. Fact: FAR, FAR fewer people show up for women's hockey and basketball games than the men's teams - and this season the women are doing far better. Hmmm.
Any conclusion other than a simple "people, whether they want to admit it or not simply don't care about women's athletics" doesn't face the facts. Frankly, it doesn't matter how much you LOOOOVE going to the game Ma'am, very few other people do. That is just the truth. We will never see a local sportswriter write a story about this, because, well, he can't...so instead post a question that has the most simple answer ever: THE REASON NOT MANY PEOPLE SHOW UP IS BECAUSE NOT MANY PEOPLE CARE.
(12/10/2008 2:28 PM)
JR says:
People posting seem to be making two separate arguments. The first argument is that women's sports aren't poluar or whatever. Ok, if you want to compare against men's sports and men's attendance it is a fair enouugh argument, but some informed people on here mention that they aren't even keeping up with other women's sprots attendance wise. Which is the second argument, why aren't they keeping up with Women's volleyball or basketball in attendance. Clearly Madison is a hockey town and clearly it supports women's athletics. So Bagott (for once, blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while) might actually be on to somethin regarding the schedule. Let's face it, the fact ANYONE attends the Friday afternoon games is a minor miracle, and the Sunday games are tough as well and NOT just because it is women's hockey. I went to the Badger men's basketball games against LBSU earlier this year. Not a great opponent but this was the very first game of the season, you would think men's bball fans would attend the very first honme game of the season regardless of opponent, and you would be right except it was on Sunday afternoon (during a Packer game) and guess what the place was ABRELY a third full, maybe 5,000 people there tops. TO me that translates big time that schedule is the biggest part of why this team isn't getting the attendance of the other top women's sports at UW. Don;t compare them to the men, it is a not a fair comparison, compare them to women's volleyball, I think that is a very fair comparison and when you do that the only logical thing is that their time slot is less than desireable. I know peronally we go to men's games because they are on Friday or Saturday NIGHTS and that is free time for us but afternoons we have youth hockey games of our own to attend on Saturdays and Sundays and if they aren't at the same time we might be traveling or just need a rest by Sunday afternoon. One note that is lost on Baggott here though, the twomen's team does LEAD THE NATION IN ATTENDANCE, that should say something on the counterpoint to this irrelevant article.
(12/8/2008 6:11 PM)
missing the point says:
BadgerBill badly misses the point, though.
Don't compare women's Hockey to men's Hockey, its a stupid comparison. No one is saying that if Women's Hockey played only at 7pm on Friday and Saturday that they'd sell 15k tickets.
Comparing the women's team to the mens is like comparing the Mallards attendance to the Brewers, and saying the Mallards are a failure because of that number.
The question is why does the women's hockey team draw so poorly compared to Womens Basketball or Volleyball?
That's where the schedule comes into play. If the women had a reasonable schedule, then maybe they would start drawing 5,000 fans (which they have done before on specific occations) on a regular basis - and then maybe BadgerBill would care.
Don't compare women's Hockey to men's Hockey, its a stupid comparison. No one is saying that if Women's Hockey played only at 7pm on Friday and Saturday that they'd sell 15k tickets.
Comparing the women's team to the mens is like comparing the Mallards attendance to the Brewers, and saying the Mallards are a failure because of that number.
The question is why does the women's hockey team draw so poorly compared to Womens Basketball or Volleyball?
That's where the schedule comes into play. If the women had a reasonable schedule, then maybe they would start drawing 5,000 fans (which they have done before on specific occations) on a regular basis - and then maybe BadgerBill would care.
(12/8/2008 4:07 PM)
Hoosier says:
Well said Badgerbill!!Womens sports are kind of like JV sports,if your son or daughter play you go and watch,if not who cares....
(12/8/2008 12:20 PM)
BadgerBill says:
Schedule? Please. Put them in the men’s primetime slots and make the tickets free and they still wouldn’t draw. It’s the same reason minor league sports don’t draw (and can’t charge the same ticket prices) as major league sports. And why Platteville winning 173 championships in basketball draws no more than a, “Huh, really?” in the state anywhere outside of their arena.
The level of play simply is not as good. Period. It has nothing to do with women vs. men specifically, other than the fact that at the highest levels of any sport in the entire freaking world women can’t compete with the same men who are at the highest levels. It’s not a misogynistic argument, it’s genetics. Men are bigger, stronger, and faster, and therefore compete at a higher level.
I’d also pose a different question, and the answer will be the same—Why does the local media not give the women’s team the same amount of space it gives to the men’s team? Because newspapers are in the business of making money, and in order to do that they have to print things people want to read about. People don’t really care about women’s hockey on a large scale, so they don’t want to read about it as the top headline. That’s not to say what the women’s team has accomplished, and are accomplishing this year, isn’t wonderful and great and amazing. But find me even 5,000 people who care enough to fill the seats, and then I’ll really get worked up about it.
The level of play simply is not as good. Period. It has nothing to do with women vs. men specifically, other than the fact that at the highest levels of any sport in the entire freaking world women can’t compete with the same men who are at the highest levels. It’s not a misogynistic argument, it’s genetics. Men are bigger, stronger, and faster, and therefore compete at a higher level.
I’d also pose a different question, and the answer will be the same—Why does the local media not give the women’s team the same amount of space it gives to the men’s team? Because newspapers are in the business of making money, and in order to do that they have to print things people want to read about. People don’t really care about women’s hockey on a large scale, so they don’t want to read about it as the top headline. That’s not to say what the women’s team has accomplished, and are accomplishing this year, isn’t wonderful and great and amazing. But find me even 5,000 people who care enough to fill the seats, and then I’ll really get worked up about it.
(12/8/2008 12:11 PM)
BadgerBill says:
Schedule? Please. Put them in the men’s primetime slots and make the tickets free and they still wouldn’t draw. It’s the same reason minor league sports don’t draw (and can’t charge the same ticket prices) as major league sports. And why Platteville winning 173 championships in basketball draws no more than a, “Huh, really?” in the state anywhere outside of their arena.
The level of play simply is not as good. Period. It has nothing to do with women vs. men specifically, other than the fact that at the highest levels of any sport in the entire freaking world women can’t compete with the same men who are at the highest levels. It’s not a misogynistic argument, it’s genetics. Men are bigger, stronger, and faster, and therefore compete at a higher level.
I’d also pose a different question, and the answer will be the same—Why does the local media not give the women’s team the same amount of space it gives to the men’s team? Because newspapers are in the business of making money, and in order to do that they have to print things people want to read about. People don’t really care about women’s hockey on a large scale, so they don’t want to read about it as the top headline. That’s not to say what the women’s team has accomplished, and are accomplishing this year, isn’t wonderful and great and amazing. But find me even 3,000 people who care enough to fill the seats, and then I’ll really get worked up about it.
The level of play simply is not as good. Period. It has nothing to do with women vs. men specifically, other than the fact that at the highest levels of any sport in the entire freaking world women can’t compete with the same men who are at the highest levels. It’s not a misogynistic argument, it’s genetics. Men are bigger, stronger, and faster, and therefore compete at a higher level.
I’d also pose a different question, and the answer will be the same—Why does the local media not give the women’s team the same amount of space it gives to the men’s team? Because newspapers are in the business of making money, and in order to do that they have to print things people want to read about. People don’t really care about women’s hockey on a large scale, so they don’t want to read about it as the top headline. That’s not to say what the women’s team has accomplished, and are accomplishing this year, isn’t wonderful and great and amazing. But find me even 3,000 people who care enough to fill the seats, and then I’ll really get worked up about it.
(12/7/2008 3:23 PM)
hoosier says:
Maybe because hockey is barely even a sport.What are there about 3 or 4 colleges that even have womens hockey.Now I know why my friend make fun of me for growing up in Wisconsin.This would not even get any attention from Baggot if not for the fact every sport (except mens BB) now sucks at the UW
(12/6/2008 12:59 PM)
JP says:
Many opinions and thoughts, but a true hockey fan and anyone who appreciates true excellence in sport, regardless of gender, are missing a truly great opportunity to see women's hockey at its finest. I am sorry I was unable to see many collegiate games played by our local girl's hockey hero Jinelle Zaugg. If I didn't live four and a half hours away, I would go to every home game. This year's team is as good as ever!
(12/6/2008 9:35 AM)
Dirge says:
Bottom line is schedule, forced by facility limitations. Women's hockey is fourth in line in KC priorities. We are hockey fans and men's season ticket holders. But we have other time needs and interests and more hockey on the same weekend is past our saturation point. We would go to more women's games if they were on weekends the men are on the road, and at times other than Friday afternoon. The logistics of flipping the building (basketball to hockey and back) makes the KC prefer to have all-hockey or all-hoops weekends. The KC is a great place but if it forces the women to play at 2 pm the same day as the men we're not going to make it. Get the women an on-campus facility that fixes the problem and they will draw better crowds. They have earned it. Oh, and the guy who says Johnson doesn't promote locally enough doesn't understand NCAA limitations, and probably the demands of the job plus raising five kids.
(12/5/2008 6:10 PM)
Moo says:
It's too bad more students don't go.
I've taken my 3-year old daugther to games over the past year because it's cheap and easy to get a good seat. After having watched the men's team play since 1989, I have to say I'm impressed with the speed of the women's game, and I think that non-checking keeps the game flowing better. The women can't shoot with nearly the same velocity as the men, but they still skate well, pass well, and they play great together. And more often than not, we've gotten free ice cream after going to the games. Think about that, students!
I've taken my 3-year old daugther to games over the past year because it's cheap and easy to get a good seat. After having watched the men's team play since 1989, I have to say I'm impressed with the speed of the women's game, and I think that non-checking keeps the game flowing better. The women can't shoot with nearly the same velocity as the men, but they still skate well, pass well, and they play great together. And more often than not, we've gotten free ice cream after going to the games. Think about that, students!
(12/5/2008 5:21 PM)
Frisky Badger says:
The local stations barely promote the men's team, good luck getting them to promote the women.
(12/5/2008 1:58 PM)
Mike says:
I agree that UW Women's Hockey is dominant, but it is painfully boring to watch. Very slow pace and probably too much strategy for your average fan. It's like soccer on ice. The Local TV stations give it the coverage it deserves. Most of them will cover at least one game in a weekend or perhaps more depending on staffing and what else is going on that weekend. Trust me, if there were more people there, it would get more coverage.
(12/5/2008 1:15 PM)
Joe says:
Wow, a lot of people have a lot to say.
How about the three local TV stations and radio stations starting to promote the women's hockey games as a gesture of good faith. Then no one can blame the school for promoting. Tell us when to go and we shall come!!!
How about the three local TV stations and radio stations starting to promote the women's hockey games as a gesture of good faith. Then no one can blame the school for promoting. Tell us when to go and we shall come!!!
(12/5/2008 12:32 PM)
Maggieg says:
People complain about the schedule, state that they don't know when the games are played. At the UW Athletic web site, a schedule for each and every varsity sport the uW has is listed, times are already posted or will be posted well in advance of the date the games are to be played. I love women's hockey and watch as much as I can on live streaming or TV. I live about an hour or so from Madison but just don't do attending games well as I have some health issues. I honestly believe if people really wanted to find a way to go to the games they would do so.
(12/5/2008 12:17 PM)
To Pete L says:
Pete, sorry but your argument about it not being the schedule and parking doesn't hold up.
First of all, discounting the schedule as not being a factor because the football team would sell out if they played on friday afternoon? That's not apples to oranges, that's apples to SUVs. Using that argument, the Mens Hockey team must not have a following either, because they don't sell out every game and they get prime scheduled spots.
Clearly women's hockey -and any women's sport- is going to struggle for attendance compared to mens. The question is why can't women's hockey compete for attendance with women's basketball and volleyball.
As far as parking goes, that's a great thing about the women's games. They allow FREE PARKING in the lot right next to the Kohl Center for womens hockey games! Moving the games to the Colliseum would still result in a huge empty building, even if they got an impressive 3-4,000 a game, and moving back out to Middleton or Verona would make the games harder to get to for both the students and anyone who doesn't live on the west side.
First of all, discounting the schedule as not being a factor because the football team would sell out if they played on friday afternoon? That's not apples to oranges, that's apples to SUVs. Using that argument, the Mens Hockey team must not have a following either, because they don't sell out every game and they get prime scheduled spots.
Clearly women's hockey -and any women's sport- is going to struggle for attendance compared to mens. The question is why can't women's hockey compete for attendance with women's basketball and volleyball.
As far as parking goes, that's a great thing about the women's games. They allow FREE PARKING in the lot right next to the Kohl Center for womens hockey games! Moving the games to the Colliseum would still result in a huge empty building, even if they got an impressive 3-4,000 a game, and moving back out to Middleton or Verona would make the games harder to get to for both the students and anyone who doesn't live on the west side.
(12/5/2008 12:03 PM)
bk says:
The fact that there are so many posts on this subject is encouraging. I went to the game last Friday and Lawler & company are something else to watch. They play a skating and passing game which is fun to watch-too much emphasis is placed on contact in hockey so it's fun to watch a skilled game.Mark Johnson has been a winner as a player and coach at every level of his career. The team is a reflection of him. What recruit wouldn't want to come to Wisconsin to play for a top notch coaching staff in a top notch facility? Why not schedule the women's home games on Friday and Sat nites when the men are on the road?
(12/5/2008 11:31 AM)
the n says:
Jaybird-
I wasnt bashing womens hockey, get your facts straight, i would rather go to a womens hockey game than a womens bball game, but the schedule is all over the place. I did go to that harvard game when they won in 4 OT's and it was fun. Plus the bottom level of the KC was pretty much full and i believe there were some people in the 200 level. I enjoy mens games more because I have been going to mens hockey games since they played in the Coliseum and I have known people who played for them. I also have had student tickets as well. But i think womens hockey, when they get their new rink and they get a consistent schedule they will attract more people.
I wasnt bashing womens hockey, get your facts straight, i would rather go to a womens hockey game than a womens bball game, but the schedule is all over the place. I did go to that harvard game when they won in 4 OT's and it was fun. Plus the bottom level of the KC was pretty much full and i believe there were some people in the 200 level. I enjoy mens games more because I have been going to mens hockey games since they played in the Coliseum and I have known people who played for them. I also have had student tickets as well. But i think womens hockey, when they get their new rink and they get a consistent schedule they will attract more people.
(12/5/2008 10:54 AM)
jdb says:
The UW athletic department needs to get off their tails as well here and promote a Pack the Kohl night for this team like they have for a mediocre women's basketball team a year or two ago. Try and get at least 8,000 to 10,000 fans to attend one of this #1 ranked team's games and the UW may attract many more fans.
(12/5/2008 10:18 AM)
ME2 says:
Dave G:
Many NCAA Rules prohibit college programs from promoting HS and Youth teams because it may be considered a recruiting attempt.
The UW and Minnesota Coaches were reported for an NCAA Violation last season for giving radio interviews about their programs during the Minnesota Girls HS Tournamnet.
Stupid rules make it hard for the coaches to show support for the HS and youth teams.
Other than holding camps, which the program does several times a year theres not a whole lot else they can do...
Many NCAA Rules prohibit college programs from promoting HS and Youth teams because it may be considered a recruiting attempt.
The UW and Minnesota Coaches were reported for an NCAA Violation last season for giving radio interviews about their programs during the Minnesota Girls HS Tournamnet.
Stupid rules make it hard for the coaches to show support for the HS and youth teams.
Other than holding camps, which the program does several times a year theres not a whole lot else they can do...
(12/5/2008 9:33 AM)
bmaenterprises says:
I'd love to go to more games but the scheduling just doesn't allow for it. It's a wonderful product and the women are great as is their entire staff as Mark Johnson does a fantastic job. But it's hard to get the games when the schedule works against you. If you can get to a game though I highly recommend it as it's cheap entertainment and they win!
And I agree, bring back baseball!!
And I agree, bring back baseball!!
(12/5/2008 9:13 AM)
Dave G says:
First - love the Women's game, skill, passing, positioning. I have a daughter who plays and we enjoy watching youth hocley. So why don't I attend Badger Women's games?
1. schedule is prohibitive
2. Kohl center is cavernous - I expect attendence will go up significantly when they play in a rink that seats 4 -5 thousand because the atmosphere will be more fun and exciting for everyone.
3. Johnson is a great guy, but too soft spoken and passive with the public - he doesn't promote, he doesn't ask for fan support, he is never seen supporting local youth programs unless his kid is involved.
If the WI girls reached out to the local programs like the Ice Spirit, Capitols, WI Wild, and HS teams like the Madison Metro Lynx, their support would go up immediately.
1. schedule is prohibitive
2. Kohl center is cavernous - I expect attendence will go up significantly when they play in a rink that seats 4 -5 thousand because the atmosphere will be more fun and exciting for everyone.
3. Johnson is a great guy, but too soft spoken and passive with the public - he doesn't promote, he doesn't ask for fan support, he is never seen supporting local youth programs unless his kid is involved.
If the WI girls reached out to the local programs like the Ice Spirit, Capitols, WI Wild, and HS teams like the Madison Metro Lynx, their support would go up immediately.
(12/5/2008 9:05 AM)
jdb says:
The women's hockey games are exciting and my son (age 6) loves them and being able to sit on the glass. One of the big problems is 2:00 pm Friday games when kids are still in school and parents are still at work. The UW athletic department should also have a "Pack the Kohl" game for the women's hockey similar to what they did for the women's basketball team a few years ago. The Friday day games are brutal, but it is probably what has to give in order to have 4 teams using the same facility.
(12/5/2008 8:48 AM)
xii says:
"Also, anyone offended by sieve just isn't a HOCKEY fan; it's not really a WOMEN'S hockey issue."
Exactly. It boggles my mind that anyone could be offended by the "sieve" chant. I think it's actually one of the more entertaining aspects of attending the games. With few exceptions, the cheers from the student section are at least half the appeal of going to games for me. That said, I could do without the "We're gonna beat the sh*t out of you..." chant. I may be old and cranky (stand up, old people!) but I think that particular cheer is inappropriate when there are young kids around.
Exactly. It boggles my mind that anyone could be offended by the "sieve" chant. I think it's actually one of the more entertaining aspects of attending the games. With few exceptions, the cheers from the student section are at least half the appeal of going to games for me. That said, I could do without the "We're gonna beat the sh*t out of you..." chant. I may be old and cranky (stand up, old people!) but I think that particular cheer is inappropriate when there are young kids around.
(12/5/2008 8:47 AM)
TH says:
David's got it right about that quadruple OT game. That was one time where I put the women above the men for hockey- the women were in a crazy good playoff matchup with Harvard, while that year the men hadn't managed to earn a home WCHA playoff series. Rather than listen to the men's away first round WCHA playoff game on the radio, I decided women's NCAA playoffs live at home > men's WCHA first round playoffs on radio, and THAT was a good call. The women's game vs. Harvard was as epic as the men's 2006 game vs. Cornell in Green Bay.
The sport absolutely can be as exciting, it just doesn't have the same tradition as the men's games and is less conveniently scheduled.
The sport absolutely can be as exciting, it just doesn't have the same tradition as the men's games and is less conveniently scheduled.
(12/5/2008 8:44 AM)
UWWomenhockeyfan says:
We LOVE going to watch the women play Hockey! I prefer watching the women. They have great skating skills, they are energetic, fun to watch, and they are GOOD!!!! They play as a team. They are an inspiration to All young hockey players. Thank you to the girls and staff of the UW Womens Hockey Team, we are big fans!! And we appreciate the true skill and talent that each of you have!
(12/5/2008 8:25 AM)
jaybird says:
Hey "N", why don't you and ZZZZZZZZ get together and insult each other? Then we readers don't have to put up with your nonsense! The womens Hockey team is great because they have a great coach with big league credentials!!
(12/5/2008 8:18 AM)
Doug says:
Scheduling is the problem.. I'd go to more games if they weren't scheduled at 2 p.m. on a Friday. I work then. 'Nough said.
(12/5/2008 8:14 AM)
David says:
Women's hockey is NOT boring. Their quadruple overtime win against Harvard two years ago was one of the most exciting sporting events I've ever attended and I go to my fair share at the KC. Kudos to Mr. Baggot for bringing it up. They deserve more.
(12/5/2008 12:04 AM)
ZZZZZZZZZ says:
Nobody cares DUH
signed
WNBA
signed
WNBA
(12/4/2008 11:06 PM)
buckeyegirl says:
It's easy; women's sports are boring. I've been to a couple of volleyball games - yawn. My daughter played both middle school volleyball and high school soccer and neither were nearly as exciting as my boys' soccer or football games. It's just not the same. Sorry.
(12/4/2008 10:49 PM)
rural dweller says:
Never had any interest in women's hockey, volleyball or basketball. The same for men's sport. My kid went to a football game this year and the metal benches in the stands were not designed to seat anyone comfortable. Better to watch on your couch if interested and fall asleep for a great afternoon nap.
(12/4/2008 10:03 PM)
GC says:
I think TH has got it. There's only so much time. People who go to sporting events choose to go to Men's venues. We simply don't have the resources or time to go to Women's venues as well. If we did, we would. I know I would love to go see one of the most dominant sports programs in the nation. I just can't afford the time or the money in addition to the sporting events I already take in.
(12/4/2008 9:43 PM)
tim says:
up north ah too far to drive i say great job team keep it up we watch in the news web pages. thank you for games we lov it.
(12/4/2008 9:30 PM)
BV says:
Let in checking, you'll start seeing the ticket sales go up. They let woman play rugby. Hockey is about physical play. If I want to watch skating, I'll get a ticket to the Ice Capades next time they are in town. Do you think Camp Randall would be full for flag football?
(12/4/2008 9:05 PM)
TH says:
I've been to some women's games, but usually only make 1-3 each year. As much as I love hockey, there are only so many hours in a week, and between work, sleep, dog walking, etc., sadly only 5ish can be devoted to hockey most weeks- and I already attend all men's home games and either travel to (1-2 series a year), watch on tv, or listen to the men's away games. The women are absolutely the better team so far this year, but the men are the team I grew up watching, and the fanaticism for men's college hockey is unstoppable- and so that takes most of the hours I can devote to hockey most of the time. Friday afternoon games are just impossible to attend most of time time given the whole work thing.
On a lesser note, with a large arena mostly empty and no defined student section, the atmosphere also isn't as good. I hope that when the new women's/practice rink is finally built, the arena size will match the crowd better and the atmosphere will seem more fitting. A section reserved for students would also help.
So, I try to get to a women's game once in awhile and keep an eye on how they're doing, but they just have not inspired the same level of devotion for me.
Also, anyone offended by sieve just isn't a HOCKEY fan; it's not really a WOMEN'S hockey issue.
On a lesser note, with a large arena mostly empty and no defined student section, the atmosphere also isn't as good. I hope that when the new women's/practice rink is finally built, the arena size will match the crowd better and the atmosphere will seem more fitting. A section reserved for students would also help.
So, I try to get to a women's game once in awhile and keep an eye on how they're doing, but they just have not inspired the same level of devotion for me.
Also, anyone offended by sieve just isn't a HOCKEY fan; it's not really a WOMEN'S hockey issue.
(12/4/2008 7:42 PM)
Pete L says:
You can't really blame lack of attendance on the scheduling. Badger football can start at any time and play as poorly as they want and people will still pay too much money and pack Camp Randall to see them.
I've played hockey for many years and in many different venues, and I think that many hockey players (dare I say most) would prefer to play in a rink that is packed as opposed to a huge rink like the Kohl Center that has the same attendance. Has the university considered having the women's hockey team play at the Coliseum (now THAT is a rink for hockey!).
The pace of the game as well as no checking is also another reason why attendance is probably low. The game is much less exciting (I play in a no-check league now and I hate it) without checking and at a slower pace. Would you show up to watch a good pond-hockey team? Probably not.
The Kohl Center is also not an easy place to get to for everyone except students. You have to drive downtown and find a place to park (and pay good money for a parking place), so many people from out of town may not even put up with going to a game. If they played at a venue like the Coliseum, it's easy to get to, easy to park, and the concessions are cheaper. I had a great time when the men's team had their first round WCHA playoff games at the Coliseum a few years ago because the building is impossible to beat. I live out by Capitol Ice Arena where the women used to play, and I've considered going to games, but now that they play downtown I'm not crazy about going anymore.
I've played hockey for many years and in many different venues, and I think that many hockey players (dare I say most) would prefer to play in a rink that is packed as opposed to a huge rink like the Kohl Center that has the same attendance. Has the university considered having the women's hockey team play at the Coliseum (now THAT is a rink for hockey!).
The pace of the game as well as no checking is also another reason why attendance is probably low. The game is much less exciting (I play in a no-check league now and I hate it) without checking and at a slower pace. Would you show up to watch a good pond-hockey team? Probably not.
The Kohl Center is also not an easy place to get to for everyone except students. You have to drive downtown and find a place to park (and pay good money for a parking place), so many people from out of town may not even put up with going to a game. If they played at a venue like the Coliseum, it's easy to get to, easy to park, and the concessions are cheaper. I had a great time when the men's team had their first round WCHA playoff games at the Coliseum a few years ago because the building is impossible to beat. I live out by Capitol Ice Arena where the women used to play, and I've considered going to games, but now that they play downtown I'm not crazy about going anymore.
(12/4/2008 6:46 PM)
Greg says:
I've been following the program pretty much from the beginning and also have been surprised why attendence hasn't been higher.
The comments on here that people aren't interested in womens' sports simply aren't true at UW. When the basketball and volleyball teams are going well, they average around 7,000 & 4,000 respectively and sometimes had crowds over 10,000. So there is clearly an interest in a quality Badger women's team.
As noted, the scheduling has always been poor. Because they are the fourth tenant at Kohl, they get the scheduling leftovers, which means six Friday afternoon games which is a complete joke. That doesn't happen to high school teams. Plus, it seems that many of their weekend afternoon games go up against Packer games or Badger football or basketball road games.
Also the environmnet at the games needs improvement. For some reason, the athletic department has not seen fit to make sure that a band (even a small delagation) is at any of the games. In past years, they were at a handful of games, but so far there has been no band at any of their 10 home games. That's unacceptable and would never happen for basketball or volleyball.
I'm not sure the best way to acheive this, but they also need a little student representation in the crowd. Even a couple hundred students could make a lot noise and make for a better game environment.
As for the game itself, women's hockey has gotten a lot faster and more skilled than 8-9 years ago. People would be surprised if they gave it a chance and watch the quality of hockey.
There's no doubt that the rumored new arena should help with this. Ideally, they would then be able to play more night games and the smaller size will make for a louder, more exciting environmnet.
Until then, people need to just come out and support the team, which has easily accomplished the most of any within the UW athletic department.
The comments on here that people aren't interested in womens' sports simply aren't true at UW. When the basketball and volleyball teams are going well, they average around 7,000 & 4,000 respectively and sometimes had crowds over 10,000. So there is clearly an interest in a quality Badger women's team.
As noted, the scheduling has always been poor. Because they are the fourth tenant at Kohl, they get the scheduling leftovers, which means six Friday afternoon games which is a complete joke. That doesn't happen to high school teams. Plus, it seems that many of their weekend afternoon games go up against Packer games or Badger football or basketball road games.
Also the environmnet at the games needs improvement. For some reason, the athletic department has not seen fit to make sure that a band (even a small delagation) is at any of the games. In past years, they were at a handful of games, but so far there has been no band at any of their 10 home games. That's unacceptable and would never happen for basketball or volleyball.
I'm not sure the best way to acheive this, but they also need a little student representation in the crowd. Even a couple hundred students could make a lot noise and make for a better game environment.
As for the game itself, women's hockey has gotten a lot faster and more skilled than 8-9 years ago. People would be surprised if they gave it a chance and watch the quality of hockey.
There's no doubt that the rumored new arena should help with this. Ideally, they would then be able to play more night games and the smaller size will make for a louder, more exciting environmnet.
Until then, people need to just come out and support the team, which has easily accomplished the most of any within the UW athletic department.
(12/4/2008 6:23 PM)
Barber Greene says:
Also, maybe they need to take their game to the people a couple of times a year to build a fan base. I know the games in Verona are well attended. Why not schedule some games around the area at different venues in different cities? Having the Badgers play in their arena would be a big deal.
(12/4/2008 6:06 PM)
Barber Greene says:
I follow the team quite closely and occasionally take time off from work to see the 2 pm games on Friday. I enjoy the flow of the women's game and the offense. Before this year and the rule changes, the men spent a good portion of the game kicking the puck around in the corner.
But c'mon man, where is this 1,440 attendance number coming from? I don't think it is butts in the seats. Unfortunately, it seems to me that at best there are only a few hundred at the games.
But c'mon man, where is this 1,440 attendance number coming from? I don't think it is butts in the seats. Unfortunately, it seems to me that at best there are only a few hundred at the games.
(12/4/2008 5:35 PM)
Baseball? says:
Shawn, nobody went to the baseball games when UW had a team.
(12/4/2008 4:55 PM)
schedule, schedule, schedule says:
I first started going to womens hockey games 3 years ago because I thought it would be cheap, fun, entertainment. We started going very regularly, and even made the trip up to Mariucci when they won their first championship.
But 3 years ago, they played several evening games. They'd even play a Friday night game and then play on Saturday afternoon.
This year the women play just 3 evening home games all year, and they were the first 3 games of the season. Sorry, but most people just aren't thinking about Hockey in September.
Even playing afternoons wouldn't be a killer, if they could keep it to Saturdays and Sundays, but who can really go to a game at 2pm on a Friday afternoon? This year they play 6 Friday afternoon games, 3 years ago, they only played 2 Friday afternoons - one of which was the "Kids Day" where they get a nice crowd of student out of school for the WEAC holiday.
They've played 10 home games so far. 4 were before the start of the mens season, when most people start thinking about hockey, and 3 more have been on Friday afternoons. That's 7 out of 10 games where you simply can't expect to draw a decent crowd.
When you consider that, its actually fairly impressive that they've still been able to average 1,440 fans a game. If they want better attendance, then they need to find a better way to schedule it so fans can actually follow the team. They did it 3 years ago, so they could find a way to do it again.
But 3 years ago, they played several evening games. They'd even play a Friday night game and then play on Saturday afternoon.
This year the women play just 3 evening home games all year, and they were the first 3 games of the season. Sorry, but most people just aren't thinking about Hockey in September.
Even playing afternoons wouldn't be a killer, if they could keep it to Saturdays and Sundays, but who can really go to a game at 2pm on a Friday afternoon? This year they play 6 Friday afternoon games, 3 years ago, they only played 2 Friday afternoons - one of which was the "Kids Day" where they get a nice crowd of student out of school for the WEAC holiday.
They've played 10 home games so far. 4 were before the start of the mens season, when most people start thinking about hockey, and 3 more have been on Friday afternoons. That's 7 out of 10 games where you simply can't expect to draw a decent crowd.
When you consider that, its actually fairly impressive that they've still been able to average 1,440 fans a game. If they want better attendance, then they need to find a better way to schedule it so fans can actually follow the team. They did it 3 years ago, so they could find a way to do it again.
(12/4/2008 4:51 PM)
shawn says:
Even though it is a very successful program, they should of never got rid of baseball. It takes a lot less to run a baseball field and more people would come to watch baseball, but they never had the talent the women's hockey team has. I am all for equality for women's and men's sports, but I am surprised that women's sports are still running because there really isn't any revenue coming in.
(12/4/2008 4:39 PM)
2Cents says:
People, let's refer to them as the WOMEN'S hockey team, not the "girls," as noted in several posts. You don't refer to the MEN'S hockey team as the "boys," do you? Maybe the women's program isn't promoted as well by Barry & Co.?
(12/4/2008 4:22 PM)
the n says:
1st of all they dont flash sieve during the whole game, just after the goal, thats about it, or when the bball player had shot an airball, they dont flash airball everytime him/her have the ball again. if you are more concerned of what is put up on the ring beam instead of watching the game, you wasted your money, because 98% of the time the ring beam is used for running ads from sponsors of badger athletics. Other than football i think all uw sports are family friendly. next time you are at a hockey game and they flash 'sieve' count how many times they put that on there then write a letter to Barry, my best bet he will laugh at you!
(12/4/2008 3:50 PM)
Ray Borque says:
COMON FOLKS, ALL OF THE WOMENS GAMES ARE AT THE KOHL CENTER! AND ARE EITHER AT 2PM WHEN THE MEN ARE HOME OR 7PM WHEN THEY ARE NOT!
Basketball is largely what stirs the Kohl Center scheduling pot. The Girls are the fourth tenant in a building largely oversized for their sport.
The attendance fiqures for women's basketball games are higly inflated by the suite tickets and comps that are given out as part of other packages but rarely used. Women's Hockey attendance only gets counted if its used (suites).
Also Minnesota's rink seats 3,000-4,000 but its only full on a few select occasions when there hosting a tournament or playing Wisconsin or UMD.
I use to follow both teams, and a few years ago I found I enjoyed the women's games much more. Now I rarely follow the men.
As a former mens pro player myself I enjoy the skill of the women over the checking/violence of the men.
Finally most of the girls are not only faster, but could out skill 90% of the mens players out there.
However for most fans, Let's just state the real reason is right in saying that People just don't enjoy girls sports on a large level.
Basketball is largely what stirs the Kohl Center scheduling pot. The Girls are the fourth tenant in a building largely oversized for their sport.
The attendance fiqures for women's basketball games are higly inflated by the suite tickets and comps that are given out as part of other packages but rarely used. Women's Hockey attendance only gets counted if its used (suites).
Also Minnesota's rink seats 3,000-4,000 but its only full on a few select occasions when there hosting a tournament or playing Wisconsin or UMD.
I use to follow both teams, and a few years ago I found I enjoyed the women's games much more. Now I rarely follow the men.
As a former mens pro player myself I enjoy the skill of the women over the checking/violence of the men.
Finally most of the girls are not only faster, but could out skill 90% of the mens players out there.
However for most fans, Let's just state the real reason is right in saying that People just don't enjoy girls sports on a large level.
(12/4/2008 3:49 PM)
Hey ""the n"" says:
Are you stupid or just illiterate?
Of course you can't shield someone from hearing SIEVE or AIR BALL. I am talking about the Kohl's Center flashing it on the message boards. That to me is APPROVED by the program.
And that is stupid.
When she is in high school, she will be ready to hear the idiots (and she will probably be part of it). Some of the comments made by the fans are obscene and the gestures are totally obscene.
Of course you can't shield someone from hearing SIEVE or AIR BALL. I am talking about the Kohl's Center flashing it on the message boards. That to me is APPROVED by the program.
And that is stupid.
When she is in high school, she will be ready to hear the idiots (and she will probably be part of it). Some of the comments made by the fans are obscene and the gestures are totally obscene.
(12/4/2008 3:45 PM)
SouthofMadison says:
Simple reason: very few people care about woman's sports and no amount of politically correct posturing is going to change that.
Heck for all I know UW has a world class chess team, but you aren't going to get people to watch what they're not interested in.
Heck for all I know UW has a world class chess team, but you aren't going to get people to watch what they're not interested in.
(12/4/2008 3:40 PM)
the n says:
Here goes.....
ok well i guess u are going to shield your daughter from going to high school games when she is in high school, because the student section might chant 'airball' or 'sieve' or some other chants that you wont approve of BUT THEY WILL STILL GO ON. mens hockey games are fun and are not as bad as football fan wise. the hockey student section is cleaner than the football student section, because a) 95% of the students show up before the opening faceoff, and about that same 95% arent that drunk either. The student section can get the whole KC involved by starting 'sieve' or 'lets go red.' the sieve chant has been going on for many many years and you can't stop people from chanting it. its a chant that makes wisconsin hockey unique like hockey phil and that bear that was in the student section years ago.
also not many people go to womens bball games since stone has become coach. its not fun to watch, plus they are awful.
but keep shielding you daughter 'Here Goes....' because she will not have fun at sporting events since you wont allow her to hear 'sieve' and 'airball.'
ok well i guess u are going to shield your daughter from going to high school games when she is in high school, because the student section might chant 'airball' or 'sieve' or some other chants that you wont approve of BUT THEY WILL STILL GO ON. mens hockey games are fun and are not as bad as football fan wise. the hockey student section is cleaner than the football student section, because a) 95% of the students show up before the opening faceoff, and about that same 95% arent that drunk either. The student section can get the whole KC involved by starting 'sieve' or 'lets go red.' the sieve chant has been going on for many many years and you can't stop people from chanting it. its a chant that makes wisconsin hockey unique like hockey phil and that bear that was in the student section years ago.
also not many people go to womens bball games since stone has become coach. its not fun to watch, plus they are awful.
but keep shielding you daughter 'Here Goes....' because she will not have fun at sporting events since you wont allow her to hear 'sieve' and 'airball.'
(12/4/2008 3:30 PM)
JamJam says:
For me, it's a variety of reasons.
1. Scheduling. As others have mentioned, who knows when their games are. And 2pm games, particularly on a Friday? Are you kidding? Hockey will always be a nighttime sport for me.
2. Atmosphere. Part of the attraction of the men's game is a nearly full arena, very loud, a defined student section, band, etc, etc.
3. Quality of opponents. Most teams they play seemingly don't belong on the ice. I have been to a couple women's games vs Minnesota and was at the Harvard multi-OT clash awhile back, but more often than not, the opponent is downright awful.
4. Speed of the game. Women's hockey is so much slower. A personal choice, I guess. Similarly, no checking...really?!
5. I don't know what the attendance numbers are like across women's college hockey, but how high can they realistically be aiming? Minny has a 3-4k arena that is mostly full for games. 3-4k at the KC would still seem cavernous. Didn't they almost set a record recently and it wasn't more than 6-7k?
1. Scheduling. As others have mentioned, who knows when their games are. And 2pm games, particularly on a Friday? Are you kidding? Hockey will always be a nighttime sport for me.
2. Atmosphere. Part of the attraction of the men's game is a nearly full arena, very loud, a defined student section, band, etc, etc.
3. Quality of opponents. Most teams they play seemingly don't belong on the ice. I have been to a couple women's games vs Minnesota and was at the Harvard multi-OT clash awhile back, but more often than not, the opponent is downright awful.
4. Speed of the game. Women's hockey is so much slower. A personal choice, I guess. Similarly, no checking...really?!
5. I don't know what the attendance numbers are like across women's college hockey, but how high can they realistically be aiming? Minny has a 3-4k arena that is mostly full for games. 3-4k at the KC would still seem cavernous. Didn't they almost set a record recently and it wasn't more than 6-7k?
(12/4/2008 3:25 PM)
puck4431 says:
I've heard the last game the crowd was pretty much non-existent. And I agree, this is the best the UW has to offer in the way of sports right now. AND having two nephews in the Patriot hockey program and their sister in a hockey program, I think it's a good way to get the kids to know there's more to hockey than pounding someone into the boards. Both the boys skate and handle the puck well. My niece is just learning the game, but has hardly missed her brothers' games. There's always going to be a few dozen people in the crowd who yell things that we may not like, but should that stop us taking our family and go? I don't think it should, after all the kids probably hear worse things at school. So GET OUT THERE AND SUPPORT THE UW GIRLS HOCKEY TEAM before it goes down the road the baseball program did.
(12/4/2008 3:16 PM)
Barry says:
The masses do not care to watch girls play hockey.
(12/4/2008 3:07 PM)
Here goes... says:
I know this is going to make me unpopular but it is the unruly nature of the hockey crowds that make it hard for me to go.
I follow the team as much as I can and love what they are doing but I stopped going to the games because the fans are obnoxious. I don't feel comfortable bringing my daughter there because of the comments of the crowd and it is really hard to teach sportmanship when the word SIEVE is flashed along the Kohl Center banner boards when the other goalie lets a puck through. I suspect this is all part of the men's game and so it will be there at the women's game. I can't say because I have never been to a men's collegiate game (I used to go see the Admirals in Milwaukee years ago but I did not bring children).
You asked why the women's basketball is so popular and the answer is that it is a great place to bring your family. Rowdies and bad language are not tolerated so it doesn't end up there. And you would never see the Kohl's Center banner boards put up "air ball" if the opposing team's shot misses that entire basket.
Clean it up for families, promote good sportmanship and announce that you are cleaning it up and I will try again.
I follow the team as much as I can and love what they are doing but I stopped going to the games because the fans are obnoxious. I don't feel comfortable bringing my daughter there because of the comments of the crowd and it is really hard to teach sportmanship when the word SIEVE is flashed along the Kohl Center banner boards when the other goalie lets a puck through. I suspect this is all part of the men's game and so it will be there at the women's game. I can't say because I have never been to a men's collegiate game (I used to go see the Admirals in Milwaukee years ago but I did not bring children).
You asked why the women's basketball is so popular and the answer is that it is a great place to bring your family. Rowdies and bad language are not tolerated so it doesn't end up there. And you would never see the Kohl's Center banner boards put up "air ball" if the opposing team's shot misses that entire basket.
Clean it up for families, promote good sportmanship and announce that you are cleaning it up and I will try again.
(12/4/2008 2:47 PM)
the n says:
i would go to womens games, but their schedule is all over the place, i dont know when they play, when they have to play in the afternoon on a friday, i bet it makes the KC like a dead place. Im happy the womens team gets a new smaller arena next to the KC because they can have their own capacity and the crowd will look alot more full than it does right now.
(12/4/2008 2:36 PM)
GSOBadger says:
I'm glad you brought this up, because it's really puzzled me, too. I mean, the wildly inconsistent women's basketball team draws 6,000 - 8,000 a game, the good (until this year) but hardly in the same class women's volleyball team draws 3,000 - 4,000 a game, and yet this absolutely world class women's hockey team can't even draw 2,000? I know if I still lived in the Madison I'd go every chance I could. The Friday times are ridiculous, but I can't imagine why the weekend contests can't draw at least 5,000 or so.
I know people talk about the slower pace, etc., but eveyone seems to enjoy watching the national team at the Olympics, and I've found the Badgers to be thrilling to watch on the few occasions they've been available on TV. Sure hopes the community discovers this powerhouse - the women deserve their support.
I know people talk about the slower pace, etc., but eveyone seems to enjoy watching the national team at the Olympics, and I've found the Badgers to be thrilling to watch on the few occasions they've been available on TV. Sure hopes the community discovers this powerhouse - the women deserve their support.
(12/4/2008 2:33 PM)
Jim says:
I enjoy the women's game but have heard from others why they won't go. For most it is the lack of checking/violence. I appreciate the great passing and skill of the players but for many it isn't hockey if there aren't big hits and the chance of fights. And it isn't just men thinking that. A number women at work that go to the men's games will not go to a womens game for the above reasons. Too bad since they really are missing some great hockey.
(12/4/2008 2:32 PM)
Jess says:
"For me it's scheduling. You always know when the men's team is playing, The women's schedule is all over the board."
Well, I'd imagine that the mens team gets the prime time slot if both teams are at home because the men draw a bigger audience. Makes sense, of course, but it's going to be a continuing cycle if you are always going to privilege the men's games over the women's.
Well, I'd imagine that the mens team gets the prime time slot if both teams are at home because the men draw a bigger audience. Makes sense, of course, but it's going to be a continuing cycle if you are always going to privilege the men's games over the women's.
(12/4/2008 2:26 PM)
GreenWave says:
I've got the Fri men's package, live an hour away and try to make all the "doubleheaders". What better place to kill a couple hours between games than State Street and environs!
(12/4/2008 2:16 PM)
Cory says:
For me it's a combination of factors. The schedule is generally inconsistent. I know when the program first started a home game could be played in any number of local rinks at what seem like randomly selected times. 2:00 on a Friday afternoon? Good heavens, why even bother trying to sell a ticket for that?
While the lack of checking in women's hockey isn't necessarily problematic, it can be hard to downshift from watching the men's team to watching the women's team. The women's team is full of incredibly talented young women and are an impressive group. But, the men are bigger, stronger, and faster. That makes, to many, for enjoyable product.
While the lack of checking in women's hockey isn't necessarily problematic, it can be hard to downshift from watching the men's team to watching the women's team. The women's team is full of incredibly talented young women and are an impressive group. But, the men are bigger, stronger, and faster. That makes, to many, for enjoyable product.
(12/4/2008 2:11 PM)
As always go red says:
I love going to women's games and do notice less people at women's than at men's. For me the reason why I can't get to every womens game is, Friday games are during the day which is hard to watch when I am at work. Saturday games and sunday games are usually during the day. Which I find myself getting other work done before the work week comes, which makes it hard to go to day games In the case of going to a saturday day games I have to plan the whole day to be at the Kohl Center seeing I have season tickets on saturday so from 1-9:30 is a long time to be at the center.
I do from time to time have an all out hockey day and enjoy every moment but it is hard to have an all out hockey day everytime the women and men play on the same weekend. Maybe if the had a new rink *wink wink* they used just for hockey they might be able to have home games opposite weekends of the men's games.
As Always Go Red!!! Looking forward to this weekend!
I do from time to time have an all out hockey day and enjoy every moment but it is hard to have an all out hockey day everytime the women and men play on the same weekend. Maybe if the had a new rink *wink wink* they used just for hockey they might be able to have home games opposite weekends of the men's games.
As Always Go Red!!! Looking forward to this weekend!
(12/4/2008 2:07 PM)
Let's just state the real reason says:
People just don't enjoy women's sports. It's unfortunate, but it's the truth. I have a daughter and as much as it pains me to admit it, it's the truth. People just don't enjoy girls sports on a large level.
(12/4/2008 2:03 PM)
dmgd says:
For me it's scheduling. You always know when the men's team is playing, The women's schedule is all over the board.
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